the legislative process. >> i think they could have made an exemption back then. commissioner o'brien: but the exemption, would it be to you or to an exemption class? >> the exemption is the number of employees. commissioner o'brien: so it would be a class, then, and all businesses that fell into a particular classification. >> if we said under 10 employees, which i have five full-time and one part-time employee right now. city for healthcare where a business has to pay for healthcare, what do they have to have, 10 employees? >> 20. >> there's an exemption for that, i think this could be something similar, something along those lines. commissioner o'brien: i'd be worried that probably supervisor

mora would be worried that that would dilute the effect of the legislation and the intent of the legislation probably. i think the way to go is to get a separate address and build a take-out window and people -- you obviously have a very loyal customer base and it's not going to take very long for people to long when they come in and want to get their cigarettes, they go back out and around to the side and -- buy their cigarettes separately. you could get an traci -- just classify that -- because it is very difficult otherwise to -- >> that would be a long shot. right glow think of all options. >> i know. >> it would be tough to see a customer come in and purchase something and just say, you know on a cold, rainy day, come back outside and buy cigarettes from the corner, from the sidewalk. >> on craig's list last night

that the restaurant next door to you is for sale. >> he's been in the area. >> director. i just wanted to say that -- that again so -- if -- for the -- this legislation who was intended for, they have the means to be able to sort of -- the means financially and staffwise to figure out solutions to make modifications and again, you know, to be just really clear -- this legislation will be retro active to the 2008 legislation. to the 2008 legislation. >> so, one, if this should pass, then the day -- the day it is supposed to be -- it is to be law, all businesses have to stop selling their products. there's no sort of implementation window or a window of time to allow a

business to transition. so, -- which, i think for the larger big box -- again can, i'm sure it is going to be somewhat difficult for them, because they're going to have to modify their physical space but they have got the means and the ability to -- sort of better deal with those changes than a small business -- i think not allowing the time for that adjustment is -- is something that i'm recommending that you consider putting in your recommendations. >> or -- yes allowing more time. >> allowing time. is one of the items to put in the recommendation. >> keep that in mind. >> commissioner clyde? commissioner clyde: i'm wondering if you're in a special use district of any kind or redevelopment area of any kind? >> i don't believe we developed there anymore. >> because the thing that comes up for me commissioners, is --

is the underserved nature of the location. the fact that it doesn't have grocery stores convenient grocery stores, that it does not have convenient. i -- i mean -- >> can i make a correction to that. it does. saveway is right in the area. >> three blocks. >> three blocks away. >> because -- for me public transportation, i mean i can just imagine what it is for an elder person relying on public transportation to take them back and for the across town and something that is within walking distance. >> that will be different, though, once the legislation is enacted in terms of -- of access to -- to a -- you know a pharmaceutical because -- if this legislation is enacted then saferway will no longer be able to sell pharmaceuticals. it would be back to a --, a walgreen's or a -- or a independent drugstore. >> okay, thank you.

>> what about -- what about some kind of financial ceiling on gross receipts? like -- stores that are not under a certain amount of money could be exempt. trying to think of something that is more general, no the just you. i don't know if that is possible. >> director -- do you have any -- >> well, chris did research and -- there is -- the progressive grocery, would you like to speak to this about -- about a demarcation around the $2 million mark? >> commissioners, the state of california -- through several ordinances including the recycling ordinance for convenient zones considers $2 hl or less of grocery sales is a grocery store whereas more than $2 million of grocery sales is a supermarket and that's also reflected in the progressive

grocer's guide over $2 million is considered a supermarket. >> let's -- let's include that in our recommendation. >> we could change it to -- to supermarket. perhaps. the ban would be applied to -- to not general grocery stores but -- but supermarkets. >> okay. >> just note that -- the legislation is -- is -- striking all exemptions. so, you would need to -- to note it as -- as -- that maintain an exemption for -- for -- for general grocery stores. >> okay. >> anymore questions for -- for the speaker? no. >> if i understand commissioners, it is us drafting

the response is to -- to consider recommendations of maintaining the -- the exemption for a general grocery stores as a possible means of taking a look at this or -- through the size of the square footage of location. also consideration of timing to -- to allow the business to adjust, should those two considerations not be -- one of those -- if -- if either or both of of of those demarcation that is are not considered, then -- then also, with -- with -- to allow time for the business to be able to figure out adjusting its business plan and deal with -- with the condition of the abc c -- abc license and statements around the eunuchness of what

the service and the business provides. thank you. >> thank you for your time. >> i think commissioners, we do need to take a motion on that -- >> do we need to -- do we need public comment? >> any public comments. seeing none, public comment is closed. >> i like to move that -- that we -- we -- we have our director write a letter to that -- to the board of supervisors or our supervisor mar spelling out our recommendations. >> so -- is this a recommendation -- is this a recommendation not to approve? or this legislation because of the concerns or -- or that the -- the commission recommends approval only with -- with should these modifications be considered? >> second. >> the second. >> the second option.

>> yeah. >> we'll approve with them. the amendments. >> and we approve only with the -- with the conditions we are requesting. be added to -- to the legislation. >> just to make sure, so -- you're going to be approving the -- the legislation upon -- upon -- upon not consideration but implementation of one of the -- of the recommended recommendations? or -- or an implementation of the recommendation. an amended -- that the legislation is amended with these recommendations? >> yes. yes. >> do you have all of your notes, right? >> yes. will the director summarize those -- it would be one or more of these recommendations maintaining exemption for general grocery stores less than $2 million, consideration for the square fwootage of the store, although i don't have a

specific amount at this time. >> $2500. less than $2500. might consider more back of store stock space, considerations of that? >> uhm. or shall we just say floor space. >> sales space. >> consideration to timing, allowing tile for the business model to adjust, along with abc considerations -- and then staff will summarize statements about the uniqueness of the business. sooff motion from commissioner dooley, was there a second? >> those in favor? >> aye. aye. the motion passes. >> okay. shall we go back to item number nine and 10. >> yes, commissioners will hear

item nine and 10 together. discussion of possible action to make recommendations to the board of supervisors on board of supervisors file number 101054, green bag charge. this is an ordinance amending section 1 02 to clarify the definition of checkout bag and other terms. adding section 103.5 to add a green bag charge of five cents if they provide a customer with a disposable checkout use bag. item 10, discussion of possible action to make recommendations to the board of sprfs on board of supervisors file 101055 plastic bag reduction. this is ordinance recommending the environment code by amending sections 1702, to extend the mandatory use of recyclable and compostable checkout bags from supermarket and chain pharmacys to other establishments.

we have a legislative aid to ross mirkarimi. >> thank you for your time. we two ordinances here that are enter related. it is scappeding on supervisor mirkarimi's ordinance that ban plastic bags in large retail and large kitchen pharmacies in san francisco. it is -- it is a two-part matter as i described in the two ordinary napses. the first part is expansion of the plastic bag band that would expand it to all retail outlets starting march 1st, 2011. this ordinance clarifies the definition of what a checkout bag is to clarify which bags, which bags we're banning. this is basically designed for the bag you take out of the store. it is not for the small plastic bag that you put produce in or bulk items and it also contains exemptions for -- for a plastic bag that is needed to wrap frozen food or meats that would be damp or leaking.

it includes exemptions for laundry and dry-cleaning bags, store hanger bags, and newspaper bags -- yeah, there's also an exemption from specialty retail merchandise bags, we're still working on the specific definition of. that's the larger -- the larger branded bags that are -- that you crews, like a macy's bag that are -- are sort of a higher quality that are somewhat reusable and -- that -- that we feel these -- these retailers will need more time to figure out how to adopt to either reusable bag method or recyclable bag method. finally there's also, this ordinance addresses a loophole in definition of reusable bag. you may have seen the drugstore using the slightly thicker bags that were outside of the definition of a plastic bag. they're claiming a reusable and are still basically plastic bags

that we see in the waste stream and the streets. it redefines the bag saying it must be reusable and machine washable. it would have to be washable in hot water. if it is a reasonable bag, it is something that is durable, a cloth bag, canvas bag, something that -- that is going to stand up and not be -- just a thicker use of plastic. and then the second ordinance we have is the green bag charge ordinance. this is -- this is a complement -- compliment to the plastic bag buy. it would create a fee for the use of paper bags. we see this as, you know one of the criticisms we heard that the plastic bag ban was, paper bags are incrementally based better than plastic bags. the real solution is we want people to bring their own passion. we see paper bags and plastic bags are wasteful. the disposable bags are clogging the recycling and littering the

veets. it is a practice we need to move away from. it creates a five cent fee. the money from the fee would not go from the city, the money would be kept by the retailers. this would be -- the city would encourage them to use that to e courage reusable bag users by providing them to the customers or something like that. this fee would be phased in over a two-year period with -- with march 1st2011 will be applied to the large supermarkets and -- frarmcies a then in scrarn, 1st, 2012, it would be scanneded to apply to all retail stores, the following year 2013, we apply to remaining plastic bags that are covered by the plastic bag ban. that's the meat of it, i think. we see the -- the paper bag fee as being the compliment to once, once we -- customers see the extra charge on their receipt for five cents for the bag, studies have shown that is the type of thing that gets people's

attention and get people to start to get serious about bringing their own bags. ireland was one of the first countries to introduce this. they introduced a fee and people cried that the sky is falling. years later there was something like a 90% reduction in disposable bag usage. they largely adopted the measure. i think we have seen with the introduction of the first plastic bag fee, it has gone smoothy. you see very few complaints about it. people adapting to it. personally i shop a lot at the small local groceries, i live in the mission -- in the mission and small local stores. i have gotten into the habit of keeping a -- a reusable canvas bag that -- that is a fold-up one. i keep one under my bike seat that can i pull out. san francisco is leading the way on moving away from disposable bag usage. we see this as a first step, the next stap in expanding this to meaningfully reducesing waste and improving our recycling.

they -- supervisor has joined us. i might turn over the presentation. all right. >> i want to thank my aide jeremy pol hack and we have a wonderful intern, jenny who i think also will be inserting comments. good evening, ross mirkarimi supervisor of the fifth district. commissioner mirkarimi: i didn't get to hear everything mr. pollack shared with you. i'll give you the intent and motivation. since san francisco has passed this law in 2007 and we were the first muniz pat and i did not know this, not only in the united states but in the hemisphere that had pass ads law that bans bans single use bags, plastic bags, in 3 1/2 years in quick time governments

throughout the world representing 5% of the global population are now moving on this kind of law. right now. we have seen -- a very -- a very entrenched battle in the plastics industry blunting back efforts throughout the united states, most notably in our own capital, in sacramento, where -- legislators were poised to pass the first state law this banning plastic bags but in the late hours of the last day of the legislative session, they lost by several votes because of late lobbying by the plastics industry that caused the state law to not go forward. governor schwarzenegger nibblingted he would sign the bill and that they go into special session between now and january. if that doesn't happen, we can only hope the successor will do

the same thing. munes my speaking, we have seen great success since the implementation of our law, with the help of the department of environment in san francisco and others, all of the grocery stores in the hybrid slash pharmacies and grocery stores, which constitute about 70% of the bags that go through -- through the city's retail environment, to the landfills, we been able to stem that tide through the law that we have enacted. we wanted to phase the implementation of this law before expanding it to see its efficacy. it worked well. we certainly were hoping that a number of cities around the the state would adopt a similar law. they're poised to do so. los angeles san jose and oakland and a number of cities are now lining up in the same direction. frankly we were hoping that the state of california was going to alleviate this exercise for us and have the kind of meaningful

law where it would make it less necessary for us to be here before you. we should stay the course. no matter what happens, and it is not happening. because on a federal level, if you think about the frustration and the concerns about larger national problems to the environment, the environmental did he go graddation, unanswered questions about the u.s. role to climate change, et cetera, so causes a great amount of question about what role do local governments play? well, to back up a second, since the common plastic bag is made out of petroleum and it takes minimally 500 to 700 years to degrade in the landfills in the environment, since in san francisco our guesstimated bag population is upwards of 200 million before the law that we passed in -- in the 10s of billions in the state of california, nearly -- nearly over -- what they're able to

guesstimate, half a trillion to a trillion in the united states alone, we do have i think good cause to want to contribute to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, by certainly implementing mitigating measures that significantly reduce i think the c.o. 2 that is admitted in the atmosphere. bags do that, even in the most seemingly benign way because of how -- how insignificant they may seem. they're not, in their totality. so having local law that helps us drive it across citywide we believe is the appropriate next step. there are exceptions that are built into the local law, because -- we are counting on the cottage industry of the alternative bags to come up on line. made from -- from potato or cornstarch or whatever the new technology is so that those bags unto themselves become compostable. since san francisco has a trophy

compostable slash recyclable program unlike any other city in the state -- in the state of california this is something we're driving for. but we're noticing that there is -- this -- this artificial suppression, by -- by the plastic and grosser industry to not allow the growth of the alternative bag movement, so therefore their claim is it is still more expensive meaning the alternative bag and not to use. we get that. that's why we think an allout ban on plastic bags is the appropriate course of action. we don't want to -- we don't want to unintentionally cause a defect where people were overusing on paper bags, it is a scenario we have been watching very carefully. we're also talking about -- about assigning a fee to paper passion. now in 2006, we actually had -- had -- had considered implementing a fee to discourage

bag use, plastic or paper. when newsom entered into a voluntary -- voluntary reduction pilot with the -- with the grocer industry, which failed and failed miserably, at that time of the volunteer reduction, those leaders of the industry went to sacramento and disingenuously found a legislator from southern california to imposition law that prohibits any california city from opposing a fee on a plastic bag. well, that left our hands tied since the original nation of our legislation then was considering a bag fee, i had one of two choices, either continue to go on with what i thought were pretty much insignificant voluntary reduction programs or ban them. so i banned it. it has worked really well. now the fee that would still be -- eligible is towards paper

bags. that's why we would assign a fee or contemplating five cents. the district of columbia has implemented a five cent bag fee, it worked extremely well in the district of columbia. i'm surprised -- i'm surprised it worked that well at such a low fee. the nation of ireland has imposed for the last six years a 25 cent bag tee. in the first four years of their law, nationally, in the island of ireland, they have seen an 82% reduction in plastic bags all together. phenomenal statistics. as this connects i think with the -- with the we with the moral purpose of business, this is where business intersects i think with the larger goal of having the right kind of imprint on its environment and on our economy. that's why iing this legislation before you is one that helps take it to the next wave of us being able to forward the idea

of what it means to be economic had smart and -- ecologically sensitive. so that we're able to make two ends which had been seen before as in contrast to each other actually come together and be on the same page. we're leading the charm and i'm happy to say there are other cities and states that are looking to even blow by us. and that is a sign, you know, where it is working. there's a bit of a healthy competition. we're hoping that this -- this great km mission helps us further that. >> thank you. commissioner, you have one question. >> i was going to ask about that, the five cent fee and since -- since the fee is kept by the retailer, if the retailer chooses to be more -- more green or and more aware, then the costs becomes, you use four bags and they cost 25 cents.

for the dollar, i may as well buy your branded -- the reusable bag and then it is even better branding for the reer and reusable for the consumer. is the five cents at minimum five cents, that the the fee and then the retailer could carge on top of this. >> the answer is yes. they always could have to begin with. i think this is a new stream of thinking for the retailer themselves, just like retailers if you recall used to give you a rebate of anywhere between three and five cents on average for bringing your your bag. they since stopped that. they never really promoted that they were doing that, so people had to be watchful consumers so that when -- when they were going through the retail, they would either have to ask the checkout person, would you please give me my rebate because i brought my own bags. now the stores, you know, have a limited -- eliminated that process. they also had promoted to us the

idea that there would be more -- more i think vivacious and outgoing in promoting that people bring their own bags and bring their plastic bags for recycling. plastic bags are not recyclable. it is a myth. out of the -- out of the 100% of bags we use in the united states, at best, 1.5% get recycled about so, if anyone suggests that this is a recyclable and durable process for doing so, it is completely a myth. but the fee that would be assigned to make this sort of clean and -- morlinnier, we alou it going to the retailer. frankly, if we -- i think if we did this in a way that i would have preferred it would be a shared fee between the government and retailer. that's for the the way we're going. >> my supermarket whether i go to it, i bring my own bag. they give me a nickel for the

bag, kind of like a reminder that we're doing the right thing. >> good for your intr market. i have to tell you there are stores out there that constitutional actually decided to participate and practice the law. they're not part of the law. they're captured in the first phase of our legislation, a number of stores like whole foods, fill letties which is in our district and others that did not have to -- before the law went into motion decided upon themselves to make this their practice and -- any how. they're getting it. they're on the edge of getting it. >> commissioner? >> first of all supervisor, i like to thank you and especially on behalf of the oceans that are dramatically impacted by -- by -- by the wildlife, that is dramatically impacted by the casual disposal of plastic waste everywhere, the reduction in the waste stream is this -- this -- it is -- it is significant and

is this -- is this going to reduce our garbage collection and landful costs as -- have there wean any utilities costs and ongoing costs that are important to small business people. will this to anything to -- to keep our garbage rates down and our -- our you know, our costs sth >> it is a theory. and it hasn't been studied yet because on sort of substantial level they're looking to determine if that diversion is going to result in material savings, such as let -- to put in the lapped fill but the goal is zero diversion, 1 you know had% diverse, zero goes in the landfill by 2020. there's a nexus to that, if that's our citywide objective, promoted by mayor newsom then the logic is we should be saving